Wednesday, December 10, 2008

My question to the BM-loyal community

Will these nerfs really effect your playing? Are you thinking about respecing just because of them? If you really love having a cat/scorpid pet, will their damage reduction truly change your love for them?

If you answered a "Hell, yes" to any of these questions, then please, move along. I'm addressing those players who are debating leaving a tree they love and enjoy playing in favor of "the next best." I know plenty of people that change specs in interest of finding one that balances their current wants, and this is a post regarding the state of the BM tree after the nerf, so doesn't directly apply to players who change trees on a regular basis.

It's not like BM is getting thrown back to the Dark Ages of 1.0. These nerfs are not the end of the world. You still have one of the best raid buffs in the game, and you're still putting out high end DPS. Just because one spec out DPSes another by an insignificant margin doesn't mean that the spec is dead. Hell, if you were playing just to put out the most damage, then you sure as hell weren't playing a hunter.

Oh noes! Kittehs are now doing... the exact same damage as all other pets... Wow, now that's a killer. /end sarcasm Why is it wrong to celebrate the fall of one pet type such that all others can now be equal?

These changes are GOOD - to both BM and MM. Hunters were overpowered, it's as simple as that. If MM should become the next "DPS spec" then I hope we do get the nerf bat to put us back in line. It's just like Volley - it was fun as all hell, I won't lie about the pleasure I experienced using it, but it was OP and needed a nerf. The massive output of damge was fun and we enjoyed doing it, but rationally, we all knew hunters wouldn't last like that.

(Regarding SV - I really hope you guys get a buff to get you back up to par where you should be.)

The MM community is not being insensitive. We know that if you truly enjoy playing BM, then these changes will not affect that. We rejoice the normalization of the specs and the pets. We laugh at all those bastards that sat on their high-horse of Serpent Swiftness and mocked us from above come shinking down to our level. I know I could care less if BM still out-damaged MM by an insignificant margin, because it won't change my playing, and I'm sure others would agree; we are not celebrating the return of MM as the top DPS.

Spec what you love, and having fun playing it!


Rilgon Arcsinh said...

This, this, a thousand times this.

Pike said...

You know it's funny, until Blizz mentioned it recently I had no idea cats were topping the DPS. I've been using mine in instances mostly because he's my only Ferocity pet at the moment-- I assumed all the cats running around were due to a similar circumstance. My kitty isn't even my favorite pet (although I do like him a lot, and am not getting rid of him anytime soon because I worked so hard to get him and because he has become a guild inside-joke of sorts... long story!)

Anyways, I think you guys have been really supportive of "true" BM hunters through the nerf and of the poor SV hunters who keep getting shafted. I think that maybe (and this is just a hunch), there are some MM jerks-- just as there are jerks of all other classes/specs-- that are having a field day going "LOL @ BM" and so people assume that is what you guys are doing too? I dunno, I haven't been to the Official Forums (ewww) in months but it wouldn't surprise me if that stuff was happening. =P

I still say that things will work out. Maybe BM will still be top DPS by a little. Maybe MM will be top DPS by a little. Heck, maybe Blizz is gonna pull a surprise and it's SV's turn to shine in the sun. The keyword is that I really think this time all the specs will be much more equal and people will have more freedom to spec this time. At least, I hope and pray-to-the-hunter-gods that this is what Blizz is going to actually achieve this time (we all know they have messed up in the past)... but there is a lot of negativity going around right now and I think a lot of it is overkill. I am still positive about the future and the fact that, no matter what happens, I still love this class. I could be doing the lowest DPS in the game and still love this class. Maybe that's just me though... =P

Brigwyn said...

Awesome post.

Yes, you hit it right on the nose. For the hunters that love their spec no matter what BM, MM and SV they should be able to raid it. I've said this a million times. Even defended those /cough that were being derided b/c of their choice.

The difference will be how those you told to "shoo" go away at the beginning of your post react. Those will be the ones that run roughshod over ever poor hunter that loves their spec but can't raid b/c it's not the Spec du jour.

Great post!

Rilgon Arcsinh said...

You know it's funny, until Blizz mentioned it recently I had no idea cats were topping the DPS.

I did, as did anyone who keeps up with WWS reports, EJ, or the multitude of news sites. (so are Scorpids, for that matter)

THAT'S why I celebrated the cat nerf. I'm sick of my choice to bring Ayamiss to a raid being a 400-500 DPS loss.

Pike said...

Indeed Rilgon, I hadn't been paying attention x_x I tend not to pay as much attention when I'm leveling... whether for better or worse. Really though, I guess my point was, I am 100% okay with the cat nerf, as I was not using my cat because of the DPS advantage, because I wasn't aware of it. XD

Pike said...

(and also of course, because I want to be able to use what pet I want and not be limited to one or two choices. That's one of my big concerns with the 51-point BM talent honestly. I actually brought that up on the Beta forums a while back.)

Karl said...

@Rilgon - Your hatred of BM in any form is well documented, so wipe that smirk off your face.

My real problem with these changes is this.

1) It effects those of us who aren't top-tier raiders more than it effects them. It's unbalanced. Top raiders can compensate with raid buffs and great gear. Those of us in 5-mans aren't gonna see that.

Karl said...

And on the question of play-style...

IF you want to raid, you have to be competitive. That means adapting to what provides the most dps. Period.

If your thing is running with a moth and /hugging squirrels, that's cool. But don't expect a raid invite.

I only get invited to raids because I do my best to do the most damage. Now 15-20% of that is being taken away.

Further, to stay competitive, it's clear (GC said so) that Blizz wants the auto-steady rotation to diaf, so even a BM hunter is going to be speccing for Aimed shot and weaving in arcane manually or with the macro.

So, play what you enjoy is nice, but, if MM specs are doing the most damage, that's what raids will demand. And if scorpids and cats are still the highest damage, which it looks like they will be, then there's not a lot of point to the 51-point talent besides vanity.

I'm glad that at least I leveled to 80 before this mess hit.. time to work on my ret pally.

Neggles said...

Thanks for proving my point, Karl. Nothing like idiocy to get the message across. I really loved complimenting the "poor us in five-mans" with the "you raiders won't get invites" - really shows competency.

Last time I checked, you don't get raid invites when you are an asshole either.

Alaranddl said...

I'll bite. I'm a "BM for life" hunter who loves to spec MM for pvp, and hell, just for fun.

Like you said, the nerf was due -- it was clear from even a cursory view of wws logs. I honestly found the "screw the BM fanbois" sentiment to be excessive.

I think the real concern will be that the steady nerf is going to hit every spec harder than intended, not just mindless BM hunters who insist on a macro even though they only have a max of 3 buttons to mash.

I haven't really thought it out, but even with the steady nerf, it's debatable whether it makes sense to weave in an arcane or aimed shot, simply b/c of mana issues. I'll need to read more.

Karl said...


Maybe it's different on your server, but before I get invited to a 25-man from another guild, first question is "What's your AP?" the "What pet are you bringing?".

You may think me an ass, but the point remains, Raid leaders don't care if you are enjoying your spec, they want results.

We are a dps spec. Raiding mean bring the dps.

So what is so hard to understand about that? Or is it that you feel violated that some BMers might come to MM because it may provide greater dps?

I remember Rilgon's raging posts (and his quitting the game) because BM was better at the time. Go figure...

Rilgon Arcsinh said...

You may think me an ass, but the point remains, Raid leaders don't care if you are enjoying your spec, they want results.

Then find a guild or raid that doesn't consist of douchebags; sure, it may come at the cost of slower progression, but that's a cost easily paid to actually enjoy the game.

And no, my rage was due to a lack of equality and the pure vitriol and assholism (a good deal of which you're exemplifying) coming from the ruling BM party of this class.

Pike said...

@ Karl - No offense at all intended to you, but I would hate to be in your kind of guild/server. All the guilds I've ever been in could care less about silly things like spec. What they care about is that you a.) can pull your own weight in the heroic/raid and b.) perhaps more importantly, are a fun person to hang out with on Ventrilo.

Sure we might not be the most progressed guild on the server but who cares? I love this game and I love my guild.

Not to mention when I DO think of the most progressed guild on my server, there was a very, very good MM hunter in there. Pre-3.0 I might add. (He actually started a blog but disappeared after a couple posts, it's sort of sad really x_x)

Pike said...

(would like to add that I just Armory'd that aforementioned lifelong-MM-hunter and he is an officer in that guild. And has the Conqueror of Naxxramas title. Obviously you don't have to be BM to get it on my server =P)

For real though, honestly, if you want to spec for DPS and that is how you have fun, then that is what you should do! But not everybody has fun that way ya know? =P